Debunking Excuses People Make for Giving Up Their Pets

In this eye-opening episode, Amy Castro discusses the reality of pet surrender with fellow pet podcaster and dog training expert, Jessica L. Fischer. They dive into the common excuses for giving up pets, debunking misconceptions and emphasizing the importance of responsible pet ownership. From addressing reasons like moving and having a baby to the significance of commitment and accountability, Amy and Jessica shed light on the need for better decision-making when it comes to pet ownership.

Jessica's podcast, The Pet Parenting Reset, can be found at: https://www.thepetparentingreset.com/, or you can listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-pet-parenting-reset/id1579977660.

You can also access Jessica's online video-based dog training course here: https://www.thefurryfamilycoach.com/ and her resource-guarding mini-course here:  https://www.trainpositivedogs.com/resourceguardingminicourse.

As a bonus, Starlight Pet Talk listeners can get a special discount of 50% off of the resource guarding mini-course using code PODCAST.

Transcript

Debunking Excuses People Make for Giving Up a Pet

[00:00:00] Announcer: Welcome to the Starlight Pet Talk Podcast, where we'll talk about and explore ways to help pet parents and future pet parents. Learn everything they need to know. Do you have a happy and healthy relationship with their pet? So sit up and stay for Starlight Pet Talk Rescue Adoption and pet Parenting done right.

[00:00:26] Amy Castro: Welcome to Starlight Pet Talk. I'm your host, Amy Castro, as the, those of you who know who've been listening to us for a while. I'm the president of Starlight Outreach and Rescue, and one of my roles is to be the face and voice of the rescue for the public. So I'm the person that ends up taking the phone calls from people who are either looking for pets or on the flip side, and kind of the sad side, people who are looking to rehome pets, whether it's their own or stray.

[00:00:52] Amy Castro: Strays that they find, and I probably get at least 10 of those calls a day. And those of us in rescue, sometimes we really have to bite our tongues when we get those phone calls because many times it's real easy to take the position that there is no excuse whatsoever. And notice we use the word excuse.

[00:01:08] Amy Castro: There's no reason whatsoever a person should have to give up their pet. I tend to take a little bit of a middle road to that. I think that people have a tendency to maybe give up a little too soon and not explore what their options are in some instances and in other instances, you know, it might be a case of resources.

[00:01:25] Amy Castro: And so we're gonna explore the common reasons that people give up their, or considering giving up their pets and maybe some of the alternatives by getting some expert opinion and some expert advice on this subject. So my guest today is Jessica Fisher and she is a pet parent coach, which I'm gonna ask her to explain what that is to you.

[00:01:44] Amy Castro: She's a positive reinforcement dog trainer, and she's also host of a really great podcast called The Pet Parenting Reset. And in her role as a positive reinforcement dog trainer, she works with the whole dog and obviously the whole person along the way. And she addresses everything from nutrition and enrichment and the dog's environment as well as behavior.

[00:02:05] Amy Castro: And her goal is basically to make sure that pets and their pet parents thrive. And that's. That's what we want at Starlight Pet Talk as well. So Jessica, thank you so much for being here with us today and, uh, for coming to the 

[00:02:17] Jessica Fisher: show. Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Amy. I'm excited to be here. 

[00:02:22] Amy Castro: Awesome.

[00:02:23] Amy Castro: So first, tell me what a pet parent coach is, because I'm just starting to hear, as I've gotten into podcasting, I'm starting to hear that term that I had not heard before. 

[00:02:32] Jessica Fisher: Yeah, so I actually work with pets and their parents to help them out outside of just dog training. So this is the term that some of us are using that just to distinguish the difference between just dog training.

[00:02:49] Jessica Fisher: And actually helping you become a better pet parent through nutrition, through a holistic health coaching, through, and, and I actually am now a certified, uh, holistic pet health coach, and so I can actually help people. I. Certainly not replace a veterinarian. Would never wanna say that, but help people in combination with their veterinarian find alternative ways to help their pets through different modalities that they may not have access through their veterinarian.

[00:03:22] Jessica Fisher: Um, so really like you said, working with the whole dog because so many people think, okay, my dog just needs to behave and do what I say when I say it. But the reality is that our dogs and our cats are sentient beans and we really need to. Interact with them in a different way than what a lot of people are currently doing.

[00:03:45] Jessica Fisher: It's, it's less of an interaction for some people and more of like a dictatorship, and that's what we're trying to get away from. 

[00:03:52] Amy Castro: Yeah. I think for a lot of people it's, you know, I'm the human, you're the dog, or I'm the pack leader and I'm going to dominate you. And that's not gonna work with a lot, with a lot of animals.

[00:04:06] Amy Castro: And, and even if it works, is it, is it the best thing for you and for the animal? And, and I think that that's important that you look at it from that holistic standpoint. 

[00:04:14] Jessica Fisher: Absolutely. Because you know, there are people out there and you know, bless them. They are incredibly wonderful people who absolutely love dogs who may not use positive reinforcement methods like I do.

[00:04:28] Jessica Fisher: And. You know, I, I appreciate what they do, even though I don't agree with them because they are out there trying to help dogs is not the method that I use. Uh, because at the end of the day, I want to be able to lay my head down on my pillow and know that I have given that pet parent a blueprint for success and.

[00:04:47] Jessica Fisher: So that's why I choose positive reinforcement. But yeah, we want to set our dogs up for success and there are no manuals. You know, you're not handed a manual when you turn 18 here, you're an adult. Here's how to handle pets right for the rest of your life. Like that doesn't exist. We have to intentionally go out and learn things.

[00:05:06] Jessica Fisher: So that's what I do. I help people learn things. 

[00:05:09] Amy Castro: Yeah, I think, I think that's great. And you know, with the internet it's interesting cuz sometimes I think, why don't people know this stuff? It's all over the internet. But I think at the same time, when you really start digging, the information overload and the conflicting information just causes people to go.

[00:05:26] Amy Castro: I know for me it, it just causes me to say, okay, nevermind. I'm just, I'm just gonna give up. I think it would be nice to have somebody that you're like, Hey, you know, I jive with this person. My pet jives with this person and I'm just gonna go with their approach. Cuz that's what feels right to me.

[00:05:41] Jessica Fisher: Absolutely. And yeah, Dr. Google certainly can be a double edged sword, um, because you're gonna find conflicting. Yeah. You're just, you're gonna find conflicting information regardless of what you look for. So yeah, you do kind of have to build your intuition to know what resonates with you, to know what.

[00:06:00] Jessica Fisher: You're going to feel comfortable with implementing with your pet and what you're not gonna feel comfortable with. And that's also one of the things that I help people with, um, on social media specifically, is putting out content to help give them confidence to say, that doesn't jive with me. I don't feel comfortable doing that with my pet and saying no, because you as the pet parent, are ultimately your pet's biggest advocate.

[00:06:27] Jessica Fisher: You are the hands down, last decision maker on everything that happens to and for your pet. So you know, you need that confidence to say, yes, this really resonates with me, or no, this does not resonate with me, and I'm walking out of this situation right now. 

[00:06:44] Amy Castro: Yeah. Yeah. You're the one that's gonna have to live with the consequences.

[00:06:47] Amy Castro: Absolutely. So it's gotta, it's gotta, it's gotta feel good. So when we talked before the show, before this recording, um, and we were talking about your, the Pet Parent Reset podcast, you had said it was kind of like a, a pet parent podcast 2.0. Who is the ideal listener for that? Or who, who do you think would benefit from that?

[00:07:07] Amy Castro: As, as far as the type of pet parent? 

[00:07:10] Jessica Fisher: Yeah, so the pet parent that I think is, you know that my ideal audience is someone who, they already know that their pet is family. They already know I, you know, I wanna treat my pet like a family member. What is, what can I do to better their life? So it's generally not going to be, you know, a lot of times we say define your audience by defining who your audience isn't.

[00:07:36] Jessica Fisher: Um, so generally speaking, it's not going to be that person that has a house full of kids and their pet is kind of low man on the totem pole, right? It's not going to be that person who they're, they're stretched so thin. One more piece of information is just too much overwhelm. Like do you do the best you can do with the information that you have available to you at the moment?

[00:07:59] Jessica Fisher: Be the best pet parent you can be. And if you're not ready to take it up another level, that is perfectly okay because you are giving your pet a loving home and doing the best you can. I. Gold star, you know, thank you for giving that pet at home. But if you are ready, if you're saying, okay, maybe you don't have kids, or your kids are growing up and you're starting to feel that empty nest syndrome, and you're like, now my pets are my kids, right?

[00:08:23] Jessica Fisher: Like I want to be a better pet parent and I want my dog to have the absolute best life I can give them because they give me so much. That's my ideal 

[00:08:33] Amy Castro: listener. Yeah. Great. And you know, it's interesting because I've been saying for a long time, and I get a lot of pushback from various camps of people because I, I tend to divide people who have pets into three camps, and I don't care what the labels are, but these are my labels, right.

[00:08:51] Amy Castro: So there is a pet owner who basically thinks of the pet as somewhere between a pet and a piece of property. Like this is my dog. I'll do what I wanna do with it. I'm gonna do the very basic for it. And that's it. And then on the other end of the extreme, is the person that you're talking about, the person that is the pet parent, that that is their baby or it's equal to their kids as far as the time and energy and effort and money.

[00:09:18] Amy Castro: Cuz that's another thing that I find a whole other subject, but you know, You start putting money to it, people would spend whatever it took on a child, but then they have a $500 budget for their pet. I'm like, okay, you might be more in the pet guardian realm where it's like, I'm gonna do the best I can, but it's still a dog.

[00:09:33] Amy Castro: Right? Yeah. You know, it's like I'm, so, I think your podcast is definitely geared towards somebody who's, who wants to put in the time and energy to be a true pet parent. For their pet. Absolutely. I, I think that's awesome. All right, so what we wanna talk about today is this idea of, you know, rehoming a pet or giving up a, a pet to a shelter.

[00:09:52] Amy Castro: And that just doesn't happen overnight. Um, I did hear a story recently about a guy who returned a pet the very next day after adopting it because the cat's poop stunk. So there are gonna be those people that have, you know, that make an immediate decision. This, this is not the, uh, yeah, I know. Don't say anything, um, that this is not the, this is not the fit for me, but most, for most people, it doesn't come overnight for them to be driven to that either, that taking that action or taking that thought.

[00:10:18] Amy Castro: And, you know, as somebody who is on the receiving end of the phone calls of those people, there are some common reasons that I hear, and what I'd like to do is kind of talk about some of those with you and. Whether it's debunking the myth that this is a legit reason or, and or providing resources, like how could this have been prevented?

[00:10:38] Amy Castro: Or what can you do now that you find yourself in that situation? 

[00:10:41] Jessica Fisher: Can I address that man who returned that really quickly? 

[00:10:46] Amy Castro: I, I can't, I 

[00:10:47] Jessica Fisher: can't hold back. I can't do it. Very interestingly, I was actually just the other day listening to an episode of, and I don't know if your listeners are familiar with Dr.

[00:10:59] Jessica Fisher: Judy Morgan or the two Crazy Cat ladies, but they got together and they were talking about cats, and one of the things they were talking about is how they actually have done studies on the urine of cats and raw fed cats urine. You almost can't smell it anymore. So I would be willing to bet that if they did a study, because with anecdotal evidence, the same is true of their feces.

[00:11:24] Jessica Fisher: So if we are feeding them a biologically appropriate diet, You're not gonna have that problem. That's so I had, I just had to say, I just had to say that. 

[00:11:33] Amy Castro: Yeah, no, that, that's, that's a good point. And as a matter of fact, that's one of the, uh, one of the suggestions that the organization that was getting the cat returned, you know, gave them some, yeah.

[00:11:43] Amy Castro: Gave some options. Uh, yeah. But that was also the same organization that had somebody return a dog a day or two afterwards because the dog didn't know his name. So, mm-hmm. Okay. I dunno. It's like, that's cuz he got that name yesterday when we took him in. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Anyways, yeah, so there's, so there's obviously ridiculous reasons that people have for giving up pets, but then there are the ones that are a little bit borderline.

[00:12:07] Amy Castro: And I can play devil's advocate kind of on either either side of those. So let's, let's talk about those. One of the most common ones that I hear is the, I don't have enough time for the pet. So I've got this 18 month old Husky and I'm, and we just don't have time for him anymore or her. 

[00:12:23] Jessica Fisher: Yeah. Um, definitely a very popular excuse.

[00:12:26] Jessica Fisher: I will say, first and foremost, you know, when you're adopting a pet, this is something that you want to consider is how much time, energy, and money do you have? Are you really ready for a pet? But this, that's of course being preemptive in, in the, uh, right decision making process. So, yeah, and, and you know, a husky in particular, that's certainly a breed of dog that is going to need a lot of exercise and enrichment.

[00:12:54] Jessica Fisher: And they are very mouthy and opinionated by the way. Uh, so doing your research ahead of time, of course. But even if you get to that point where now you have this animal, you are responsible for caring for this animal, and you realize, I don't have the time this dog needs, there are absolutely things you can do.

[00:13:12] Jessica Fisher: And again, ranging from free to how much money you got, right? Like, We can go from asking our friends, our family, our neighbors, you know, go into your neighborhood Facebook group and create a group of people who are willing to go around and walk each other's dogs on rotation, right? Like we can not spend any money and still get exercise and enrichment for our dogs.

[00:13:41] Jessica Fisher: Call up your brother or sister or friend who live a couple of blocks away and say, Hey, you know, you're. Teenage son, you know, they, you're getting home from school at, you know, two 30 every day. Can they pop on over and walk? My dog, by the way, this is gonna give them some awesome experience handling dogs as well, right?

[00:14:00] Jessica Fisher: So there are so many things we can do and get creative. All the way up to how much money you got, right? And getting them into a doggy daycare, that's, again, double fold. You're getting them tons of socialization with other dogs. If you can get them into a doggy daycare that HA also has a positive reinforcement training program, great.

[00:14:21] Jessica Fisher: Get them some training while you're at it. Really get your money's worth out of it. So, There's so much you can do. It, it, it isn't necessarily a matter of doing it all on your own. Even like I said, if you don't have friends or family that live super close by, then hop in, hop on Facebook, get in your neighborhood group and say, Hey, let's a group of us get together and instead of carpooling, let's do dog pulling right?

[00:14:45] Jessica Fisher: And take turns walking each other's dogs every day or every other day. Like there are things you can do. 

[00:14:53] Amy Castro: Yeah, you definitely, I think you definitely have to get or can get creative and come up with some really awesome results. And I hadn't even thought about getting together a, a pool of people to kind of take turns cuz I, you know, I know personally being the lazy person that I am, which is why I have lazy breed dogs.

[00:15:08] Amy Castro: Um, I don't, I wouldn't wanna go walk my neighbor's dog for two miles, but if I only had to do it one day every other week, sure I'd help you out doing that. You know, I'm not gonna do it every day, but periodically I would definitely do it. And I think you made an excellent point, and we've made this in other episodes and we're gonna continue to make it until people get it, is that you need to think about these things when you decide to get a pet.

[00:15:32] Amy Castro: Not only do you need a pet, but like you said, what kind of pet is a husky really the best choice for my lifestyle and, and or my housing situation, or whatever the case may be. It might be cute, it might be fluffy, it might be drawing me. But you really have to take a step back and think about what's, what's best for the animal and what's best for you long term.

[00:15:53] Amy Castro: Absolutely. And I don't think people take enough time, take enough time to kind of think about what that, what that means. Mm-hmm. Um, the other thing I think too, with the whole idea of, cuz I sort of feel like that the time issue is a bit of an excuse when you think about, you know, how many, how many hours a day.

[00:16:11] Amy Castro: Does the average dog sleep, Jessica, would you say? 

[00:16:15] Jessica Fisher: Oh boy. You know, it depends on the dog and their age, but probably upwards of 16, 18 if they're puppies, maybe even more. 

[00:16:23] Amy Castro: Yeah. So it's a lot the point that you work. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. So when people say, well, I work eight hours a day, or I'm working 10 hours a day, it's like, you know, I can see certain challenges in certain situations, but.

[00:16:34] Amy Castro: I work that many hours a day right here in my house and my animals are sleeping out in the living room. They're not running around the block or lifting weights or, you know, getting exercise. And so, you know, as long as you're taking that time to get them the exercise, when you have the time, you can't tell me that you don't have 30 minutes to take your dog for a walk.

[00:16:51] Amy Castro: And if your dog needs more than a 30 minute walk, The best thing I ever bought when I had a Doberman because I was, you know, I'm five two and a half and I've got short legs, and even when I'm thin, I run really slow. And so I got a walkie dog for my bike and that would allow, in that 30 minutes, we could cover some mileage with that dog and he would get his exercise and he would, you know, he would be fine in those situations.

[00:17:12] Amy Castro: So, um, I just should have done it more than, more often than I did, and I kind of learned about that a little bit late in the game, but, Yeah. And you know, you've got, you've definitely gotta be creative and not allow it to just be an excuse for giving 

[00:17:23] Jessica Fisher: up. Yeah. And really to kind of take that up a notch, because that's what I try to do with my audience is, like you were saying, more than just walking your dog, a dog like a husky, or really almost any dog, you know, a lot of these dogs are so much more intelligent than we give them credit for.

[00:17:43] Jessica Fisher: If we think about the things they were originally bred to do in our super mus, I mean off the charts, right? Because now they have all these different breeds in them is the fact that do giving your dog brain games, toys and games, and I mean, and you don't even have to spend money on these. You can use cardboard and towels you already have in your all kinds of ideas.

[00:18:04] Jessica Fisher: If you really start searching the internet for canine enrichment, if you give them brain games, you allow them to use their nose and use their brains, that is actually more tiring to a dog than physical exercise. 

[00:18:16] Amy Castro: That's such a good point. It it's not just the exercise issue. That's the whole thing with enrichment.

[00:18:21] Amy Castro: You know, it's not just, that's why you call it enrichment and not exercise. I mean, it's a, exercise is a piece of it, but it's not the only thing. So there are so many things you could be doing. You just need to do your homework and, and get creative on that. All right, so another one that really aggravates me is, uh, the person that says We're having a baby and I don't think I'm gonna have time.

[00:18:44] Amy Castro: Or, we've had the baby and, you know, six months ago and we just don't have the time for the dog Now. So, yeah, we, so we, we'll, we'll put aside the, we'll put, put aside the issue for now that, well, when you got married to that person, did you have any idea that you might try to have children in the next two or three years?

[00:19:02] Amy Castro: And so that probably wasn't the best time to get the puppy, but let's, let's put that aside for a minute cuz we've already addressed that issue about whether you need a pet in the first place. But what about giving up the pet for the new baby? 

[00:19:15] Jessica Fisher: Yeah, this one really, um, I'm gonna go old school and say, it really grinds my gears, but date myself.

[00:19:23] Jessica Fisher: Right? Um, yeah, it really does because of all, first of all, all the things you said, the fact that you've had nine months. You knew this baby was coming. There were things you could do. But the reality is, and what's really interesting is actually that the podcast episode that just went live on the pet parenting reset the day we're recording this.

[00:19:44] Jessica Fisher: So, um, it's with Billy Homan and he is definitely a, if not a 2.0 pet parent nerd. He's a 3.0 pet parent nerd. Wow. But, um, he. Got a new puppy just a couple of months after he had a daughter, and so he has been raising a newborn and now a toddler with a puppy. So that was actually one of the things I talked to him about and I said, I.

[00:20:13] Jessica Fisher: You know this. I told him, I said, this is one of the things that has been driving me nuts, because just in my neighborhood group, it just so happens last week or in the past couple of weeks, I've seen three or four different people posting. I need to rehome my dog. I've just had a baby. And so it is. Really been heavy on my, my mind and my heart.

[00:20:32] Jessica Fisher: And I said, and I asked him, I said, how are you doing it? And he said, here's the thing, not only is this one of the most beneficial things that I can do for my child, Just biologically, physiologically, because we, we now know, and I'm, I'm gonna go to 0.00 on you here for a second. We know that every living bean in the household shares bacteria.

[00:20:57] Jessica Fisher: Our gut microbiome kind of syncs up. So we are getting all of the wonderful benefits of living with a dog and the health benefits of living with a dog, and, uh, including reduction in allergies for raising a child with, with a dog. And Kat really in the house, and he said to me, Well, what I find interesting is that I don't care what kind of dog you have, how long you've had the dog.

[00:21:22] Jessica Fisher: If you just got the dog, if you've had the dog for 10 years, that dog is going to be much happier staying in your home and not being walked as much for a season of their life. Then to completely be uprooted from everything they know and placed into a shelter or foster, wherever they're going and having to start all over.

[00:21:42] Jessica Fisher: Like they would much rather you, they, they understand. Give them credit, they understand, and if they really need something, yeah, they might be a little whiny about it, but hey, I mean, this is, this is a time in your life to enjoy. And it's not always gonna be pleasant. And you know what? That's actually what makes life worth living.

[00:22:02] Jessica Fisher: Because if everything was awesome all the time, we wouldn't appreciate it. So in my mind, that just made so much sense that your dog is going to be okay not being the center of attention for this season of life. They understand it. They're gonna go with the flow as best as they can. Do the best you can and you'll be much happier in the end.

[00:22:27] Amy Castro: That's such a great way to put it in such an excellent point because it is, you know, if it's, if it's a year, you know, until we kind of get on our feet with the kid or sleeping enough that we can get back to exercising or spending more time with the dog, it's, you know, it's, it's a small chunk of the dog's life in the grand scheme of things.

[00:22:43] Amy Castro: And it's, like you said, it's, it's far better to do that than to. Turn its world upside down. To use a cliche that's way overused, obviously. You know, the, the other thing I was, I was thinking about too is the idea that when people are considering giving up the pet, okay, I could, I could say that there's a certain percentage of people that they truly feel guilty, that they used to lavish all this time and attention on the pet, and now they're lavishing it on their baby.

[00:23:11] Amy Castro: And so my pet deserves better like that. That makes a certain level of sense to me. But the other, the other side of it that I see is the dog is, you know, the dog's eating the baby stuff. The dog is bothering the baby. The dog's knocking the toddler down all the time. The dog's taking cookies out of the kids' hands.

[00:23:30] Amy Castro: You know, to me that's an issue. A again, whether it was the nine months, That you were pregnant, that you should have said, Hmm, this could have been an issue. Maybe I should work on getting my dog some nice positive reinforcement training to get him or her listening better or behaving better, or having boundaries set rather than I've got this free for all dog that, you know, climbs across the coffee table and across the back of the sofa.

[00:23:54] Amy Castro: And it's all fun games until the baby comes along and they're stepping on the baby's head. I think that's, that's another thing to consider too. 

[00:24:01] Jessica Fisher: Absolutely. Um, and, and I think that is probably a different excuse from I don't have time with a baby versus the interactions with a child and a a dog are not going the way we had hoped They, they would go.

[00:24:14] Jessica Fisher: Your dog's behavior is a direct reflection of the time and energy you've put into your dog. That's the bottom line. A hundred percent. So, If they're not acting the way you want them to act, then you have to change the way you're interacting with your dog to, to change their behavior. And yeah, it's never too late to get a trainer.

[00:24:36] Jessica Fisher: I go into people's homes all the time, um, you know, be comfortable. Of course with the trainer that you're hiring and the methods that they're using, but it is never too late. And the key word here is management. You know, you're not gonna mm-hmm. You're, you're gonna baby proof your home, right? So they're not sticking their fingers in outlets and they're not, you know, gonna be able to get to that hair dryer and throw it in the bath.

[00:25:01] Jessica Fisher: Whatever you're doing. I, I, I don't know, whatever you're doing to baby proof your home, you need to do the same things to make sure that if. You are not right there in the moment to mediate interactions between your dog or your cat and your child, that your dog and child don't have access to each other.

[00:25:22] Jessica Fisher: That is for the safety and benefit of both your dog and your child. Because if a dog is biting a child, you have missed a lot of clues that your dog has given you saying, I'm uncomfortable. I need you to do something about this. A bite is not the first thing they do. It's the last thing they do. So, you know, if you're not comfortable, if you don't know what your dog's cues are, if you're not understanding what their nonverbal cues are, what their, you know, the whites of their eyes and laying their ears flat and little, subtle grows, those are things that, that your dog is going to do first to say, this is not okay.

[00:25:57] Jessica Fisher: I am not comfortable. You need to change what's happening here. Then management, environmental management is going to be your best 

[00:26:04] Amy Castro: friend. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's, we could do a whole, and I know you've done an episode on kids, kids and, and dogs, and we could do a whole episode on that, but it, that is so important.

[00:26:16] Amy Castro: I mean, it's, it's, it's one aspect to train, to train the dog. It's another thing to, you know, again, not leave them unsupervised, but also just the. Being aware of what your dog is trying to tell you about their interaction with that child is, is so important because there's so many things that we misinterpret, like, oh, the dog's leaning into the baby and licking it.

[00:26:37] Amy Castro: It's like, because he loves it. It's like, is he, is he, does he love you? Is he trying to give him the first step to like, get away from me because Yeah, it's just, yeah. Peop. People need to learn to read their, read their dogs. But, uh, that's, like I said, a whole nother, a whole nother issue. All right. So moving, moving along, behavior issues.

[00:26:57] Amy Castro: Do you feel like all behaviors can be addressed? Um, and I'm thinking along things like resource guarding. That's one of the things that we have, that's a big, a big challenge in rescue because I, and, and I might be completely wrong, I'm not a dog trainer, but I'm always worried about a dog that's a resource guarder, because even though I might be able to, Get him past the point of resource guarding the bowl.

[00:27:20] Amy Castro: I can't guarantee that person when that they get home, number one, that they're not gonna go back to doing that if you don't reinforce certain routines. And number two, that that might not now transfer to some other resource that they're trying to guard. 

[00:27:34] Jessica Fisher: Yeah, resource guarding is very interesting and it certainly is going to take, um, dedication on your part.

[00:27:42] Jessica Fisher: I actually have an online video-based training course because I, I'm one person, I can't get to everybody, right? So I created a video-based course, and as part of that course, I have an entire section step by step. You know, I have a 10 step process for guiding your dog and, and. Working through resource guarding and there was such an interest in that.

[00:28:07] Jessica Fisher: I actually broke it out and created a separate, so like, if that's all you're interested in, you wanna like laser focus on that, you can just get that. And it, it is so much more complicated than people give our dogs credit for. Um, It, it is absolutely something you can work with with your dog. And I will say I am actually, especially in the cases of resource guarding, team Noble, like we're, we're just gonna get rid of the bowl altogether because that's an issue for our dogs.

[00:28:40] Jessica Fisher: Um, so I, I walk you through the steps and, and going through. Literally everything you do set from even adjusting the routine in your home and the spaces that your dog has access to because there, there are so many things that. Can trigger our dogs with resource guarding issues. You know, this is, I, I actually, I have another episode.

[00:29:05] Jessica Fisher: It was really about reactive dogs, you know, dogs that are reactive to other dogs specifically. And I said, instead of saying, my dog is reactive, change, what you're saying to my dog is having a trauma response. And just in those, changing those words that you say, And how you're framing it in your own mind.

[00:29:24] Jessica Fisher: Like if, literally if you say, my dog is reactive, your body gets tense. And if you say, my dog is having a trauma response, you let your muscles relax. You're, you're 

[00:29:34] Amy Castro: having, it's like an empathetic response. 

[00:29:36] Jessica Fisher: Very much so. And the same is true with our, our dogs that have resource guarding issues. They're having trauma responses because something has happened to them in the past that they feel.

[00:29:45] Jessica Fisher: That they are not going to have this at some point, like that's not how we want our dogs to feel. So yeah, absolutely. There are so many different behavioral issues that our dogs could have going on, and in my opinion, with positive reinforcement, we can work through all of 'em. 

[00:30:01] Amy Castro: Yeah, definitely. I mean, that's, that's a huge one.

[00:30:04] Amy Castro: I think, you know, it's, it's, uh, there's obviously a lot of behavioral issues that can, that can come up with pets, but that's probably the one that's the, I think is probably the biggest challenge for people who have that, who have that issue. It really 

[00:30:16] Jessica Fisher: is a big issue, especially if you have children because you're scared Yeah.

[00:30:20] Jessica Fisher: That your dog is gonna bite your child. And that's, that's reality. Um, so all of that is, is addressed in the, in the 

[00:30:28] Amy Castro: course. Okay, great. Awesome. I've got two last issues and then I was gonna see if you had anything you wanted to add to our list here, but Yeah. Well, and so one of them is health issues. So my dog has.

[00:30:41] Amy Castro: Whatever it might be like, I, we had a guy that had contacted us one time and he wanted to relinquish his dog. And I know this isn't a behavior or a training issue, but just curious your thoughts. Um, his dog had happy tail and so for those who don't know what Happy Tail is, it's not a scientific term, but it's, you know, basically a dog that wags its hail.

[00:30:59] Amy Castro: Tails so vigorously and it smacks, you know, it smacks against the wall or against the edge of a door that the, the tail actually splits open and bleeds, and then it becomes a kind of a chronic issue. So anything from that, or, you know, the, a dog is senior and can't get around or it's in incontinent and it's got those kinds of health issues.

[00:31:17] Amy Castro: What are your, what are your thoughts about dealing with those types of behaviors that are more physical than behavioral? 

[00:31:24] Jessica Fisher: Yeah. Uh, I, again, my heart goes straight to, you know, giving your pet some grace. They would, they would much rather stay with you and maybe not get. The world of care that is available to them than to be relinquished and have to spend whatever time is left in their lives with strangers in a shelter environment.

[00:31:50] Jessica Fisher: That can be hard to say and can be hard. A hard pill to swallow, like cuz you know that there is more out there that could possibly help your pet. But honestly, I mean, just like you wouldn't you, you would rather be with your family than to receive world class treatment for something, right? Like I.

[00:32:10] Jessica Fisher: Especially if you're, 

[00:32:11] Amy Castro: depends on what life like. Depends on what family members you're talking about. 

[00:32:15] Jessica Fisher: Well, 

[00:32:17] Amy Castro: yes, but when I'm old I'm hoping somebody's gonna be there for me. 

[00:32:22] Jessica Fisher: Yeah. I mean to your dog, you know, you are, their whole world, they don't know anything else. Right. So that's like the most empathetic side of me coming out for sure.

[00:32:33] Jessica Fisher: But there are assistance programs if it's mon a monetary issue and also, Get a second opinion, um, work with a holistic pet health coach like myself and you know, I'm not the only one. But find somebody who can offer you alternative options for your dog that maybe aren't gonna break the bank or alternative options for your dog that can just provide them with a better quality of life to get them through if it is something terminal.

[00:33:03] Jessica Fisher: Because sometimes, and in fact, one of my. Clients right now is going through this. The only option their vet gave them was euthanasia. And that's not always the case. You know, our, our veterinarians are absolutely wonderful, incredible people, but there is a world of knowledge outside of the realm of knowledge that they have that can also help your pet.

[00:33:27] Jessica Fisher: So get a second opinion, find. Alternative means that can help your pet have a better quality of life, even if it's not that $10,000 surgery that, that you know is going to possibly save their life. Because the reality is, as I said, your pet would much rather be there with you, spend whatever time they have left with you than with strangers or in a shelter environment.

[00:33:53] Amy Castro: Right. Yeah. That's such, that's such a good point too. And I, I think number one, like you said, the resources. I know for us as a rescue, we do a lot of owner outreach. If we've got somebody that he, that reaches out to us who genuinely loves their pet, to me, if somebody calls me up and they wanna relinquish their pet for the pet's best interest, so it gets medical treatment that it needs.

[00:34:13] Amy Castro: That's a good owner to me, that they're willing to sacrifice their pet. Not somebody that's like, oh, I'm tired of paying the bills, but it's like, Hey, I can't afford this surgery. My dog really needs it. And so, you know, I'm willing to give him up if I have to. We've, I've actually got two cases right now.

[00:34:27] Amy Castro: One of them's a puppy with a broken leg. And, um, another one, the one that we're working with, with a, um, a cat that dislocated its elbow and, you know, the owner was presented with the option of a $1,800 surgery to, to fix the elbow and, and exactly what you talked about. Number one, there's resources. Number two, getting other opinions.

[00:34:49] Amy Castro: You know, we were actually able to get that, um, The chihuahua in, I'm sorry. Yeah. The, no, the cat with the elbow. We got the cat with the elbow in and they were able to put the elbow back in place and you know, it's a waiting game. It's still may knee surgery, but at least we were able to find somebody that was willing to try and wasn't jumping straight, straight to surgery.

[00:35:08] Amy Castro: You know, same thing with the, with the animal, with the broken leg. It's like, can that be fixed? One person might say yes, another person might say the best thing to do is to amputate the leg and go on about your business. Mm-hmm. So it's mm-hmm. In, in the end, you know, it becomes the decision of the pet owner.

[00:35:23] Amy Castro: But it's definitely something where you should make sure you know what your options are. I mean, that's just been something that has come up so many times for us and even, even with my own pet. Our Starlight Outreach and Rescue mascot, g Guinevere, the Bulldog, she, uh, needed her a c l done. And uh, when I took her to the specialist, they said it was gonna be $9,000 to do both of her knees.

[00:35:45] Amy Castro: And I was like, okay, what do you mean both of her knees? I didn't know there was anything wrong with the other knee. Long. In the short of it. In the end, we end up doing a completely different type of procedure only on the one knee that was actually causing her problems and. She's good to go. You know, it's not, it's not that one person's bad or one person's good necessarily.

[00:36:02] Amy Castro: It's just people have different approaches to how they're gonna fix a problem. And that's, you know, that's oftentimes what medicine is. There's not a cookie cutter always the one way to get things done. So you definitely wanna investigate what your options are. For sure. 

[00:36:15] Jessica Fisher: Yeah. How long ago was that ACL tear?

[00:36:18] Jessica Fisher: That 

[00:36:18] Amy Castro: was thousand 17 or 18. Oh, okay. So somewhere in that, that zone. Cool. Yeah, we ended up doing a tightrope, which is probably not the most, uh, uh, based on her size and her spottiness. Uh, it was a little bit of a risk, but you know, again, it was my choice. I weighed all the options mm-hmm. To doing a T P L O versus the tightrope, and I was like, let's go with this.

[00:36:42] Amy Castro: You know, let's go with this one and try this first, and if that doesn't work, then we'll get more drastic. But, you know, the other option was pretty drastic surgery. All right, so now the last. Last and the fiesta resistance of reasons slash excuses that people give for giving up their pets is, I'm moving and can't take my pet.

[00:37:01] Amy Castro: To which those of us in rescue say, tell me what state or city or town you're moving to that doesn't allow pets. That's what we're thinking. Yeah. When you say that, I personally try not to actually say that out loud, but it's like, come on. 

[00:37:15] Jessica Fisher: Yeah, that is actually my first thought too, is what about your move makes you think that you can't take your pet?

[00:37:22] Jessica Fisher: Now there may be something about their move that they feel like they can't, maybe they're military and they're moving overseas and there's something that you, I don't know. Absolutely. Um, maybe there is something. Maybe they're. Moving to Hawaii and they just, it's so expensive to get a pet over to Hawaii.

[00:37:40] Jessica Fisher: There just can't, like, maybe there is some legitimate reason that they're like, I have, I can't figure this out, but what makes you think you can't? Right? Like, that's my first thought. What about your move really makes you think you can't take your pet? And I, I have to just throw this in here because. Uh, my dog, Kimberly, I adopted her from a rescue who took her in to foster care because her family was moving and couldn't take her.

[00:38:13] Jessica Fisher: And I, my quote fingers couldn't take her. So thank, thank goodness, thank the universe because she is my baby. I love her so much. Like I can't imagine my life without her. That said, is it expenses? Like, let's break this down. So yeah, that one is, is kind of a conundrum to me as it is to you because what is the real reason?

[00:38:40] Jessica Fisher: It's it more often than not is not because you're moving, like what is the underlying reason? Yeah, it is. You have more logistical obstacles. When you're moving with pets, I, I just, my husband and I, two years ago, drove from California to Texas with four cats and a dog. You think that was easy? No, it wasn't easy at all, but.

[00:39:04] Jessica Fisher: What else was I supposed to do? They, they're my family, right? Um, right. So yeah. Is it just a logistical thing that you can't get it figured out? Well figure it out. It can be done. Is it that you're moving into an apartment that doesn't allow a specific breed of dog? Well, are there other apartments? That you could be looking at because you're not just moving, your family is moving and your pet is part of your family.

[00:39:29] Jessica Fisher: So that's right. To me, a qualification of finding a place to live is that my whole family can live there. Did 

[00:39:35] Amy Castro: you exhaust your options too? That's another thing that I, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to talk over you, but you know, I think. It's kinda like when people, they'll call me and they'll say, I've called every rescue and I'm thinking to myself, there's no way you called every rescue.

[00:39:48] Amy Castro: You know, it's, you could not have called every rescue in the, the time that you said you've been trying to call rescue. So, so have you exhausted all of your options? Have you looked at all apartments within a 10 mile radius of where you're gonna work or whatever your limit for commuting is? Mm-hmm. You know, I think for some people, in some instances, it's just an easy excuse to kind of give up and.

[00:40:07] Amy Castro: Move 

[00:40:07] Jessica Fisher: on. Yeah. I, I, I'm gonna have to agree with you on that and not in a, like, oh, you're a bad person kind of way, but just in a, like, give, give yourself some grace here, by the way. No, it isn't easy. That's why it's the number one problem that, you know, re your rescue and other rescues are seen. Obviously it's not easy, but, you know, life isn't easy and.

[00:40:33] Jessica Fisher: We have to work through the hard stuff to appreciate the good stuff, and so working through the hard stuff and finding a place that you and your entire family can move to, including your pets because they're your family, is going to pay off. Once you get there and get moved in, and now you have the blessing of continuing life with your pet.

[00:40:58] Jessica Fisher: So yeah, it, to me it's generally 99% of the time is not a, it's because I'm moving what is the real reason? And we have to get to the real reason because Mo moving, like you said, is a top of mind excuse. It's not a real underlying reason. 

[00:41:18] Amy Castro: Yeah, and I think a couple of key points to kind of add to that too, and then, and then we'll wrap it up, is that, uh, you know, we'll get people calling and saying, and this is oftentimes it's college students, right?

[00:41:29] Amy Castro: So a college student gets a pet while they're at college, and then they move home and the parent doesn't want the pet. And you know, I'm all for that. If I, you know, if I don't want cats in my house, that's my, that's my choice. Um, and it's that. Student's responsibility to figure something out. But giving up the pet is not necessarily the, you know, the first thing that you should be going for.

[00:41:50] Amy Castro: Because just like you said earlier, the time that you're gonna be living with your parents, hopefully is a season in your life, just like a season in your pet's life. If you're not moving in permanently, is there somebody that could take your dog for six months and then maybe another friend that could take it for six months or, you know, some other option?

[00:42:08] Amy Castro: I had a, a colleague, an adult. Colleague of mine as a professional speaker who, um, had contemplated giving up her dog because she was gonna be moving out of the country for a period of time. And after that initial like, oh, I just can't give up my dog. It's like, well, what are my options? You know, is there somebody that would be willing to keep my dog for 18 months while I'm out of the country?

[00:42:30] Amy Castro: And you know what there was? Mm-hmm. You know, and so I'm not saying that, that you know, that everything's rainbows and bunny rabbits and that you're always gonna have the answer, but at least ask the question. You know, at least ask the questions. Don't give up at that first I can't, and then move on. It's a cop out.

[00:42:46] Amy Castro: If you haven't really exhausted your options. 

[00:42:48] Jessica Fisher: Yeah. And I have to say every family dynamic is different, but I feel like if parents are willing to let their adult child move back into their home, it probably is not going to take much ling to get that pet to move into. 

[00:43:06] Amy Castro: Um, 

[00:43:06] Jessica Fisher: yeah, that's. From personal experience, I can say that.

[00:43:11] Amy Castro: Yeah. And, and you know, maybe it's a matter of, and this is something that somebody had actually brought up to me the other day, which I thought was an excellent point, is that it's not just showing up at your house with the cat or the dog, it's telling that parent, or, you know, it could be a adult parent moving in with a child.

[00:43:27] Amy Castro: It's, you know, what is your plan for the pet? This is, I, I will take this responsibility. I will take this care. This is where the dog will sleep, stay live. Uh, this is where the litter box is gonna be, and I will take care of it. You know, if you go into it with a plan, the person that you're moving in with might be more accepting of having that pet in the home, knowing that it's not gonna become their responsibility.

[00:43:47] Jessica Fisher: Absolutely, and quite honestly, I think it's a good idea anyway, not to get off topic, but kind of is on topic. Even adult parents who are letting their adult children move back in with them, or as you said, a parent, you know, aging parent, moving in with their adult children to have a contract in place, period for the time.

[00:44:10] Jessica Fisher: For the expectation. Mm-hmm. Because especially with those kinds of relat a parent child relationship, it can be really easy to have expectations of the other party because of the relationship that you have. So having a contract in place, Regardless of whether you have a pet joining you or not, uh, would probably be a very, very good idea.

[00:44:33] Jessica Fisher: That way both of you are confident in what is expected of the other, and there aren't any questions. I think one of the overarching themes of everything we've talked about today is personal responsibility. It's something I talk about a lot. Mm-hmm. Because, In our society today, we're, we're, we're kind of losing, we're losing touch with personal responsibility and it's, it's like, it's taboo.

[00:45:03] Jessica Fisher: Like it's a bad thing. It's one of the best things you can have for your own personal development, whether you're a pet parent or not, whether you're a pet owner or pet guardian or whatever you wanna call yourself. Just being a human on this planet, personal responsibility is one of the. Most incredible gifts you can give yourself to navigate this crazy life 

[00:45:26] Amy Castro: we live in.

[00:45:28] Amy Castro: Yep. I could not have said that better and I don't think we could do anything more to end this episode on a great, on a great note and a great lesson. Thank you so much, Jessica. Of course. Um, thanks so much for being here and we're definitely gonna put the links up to your, to your podcast and to that training program that you have available, cuz I think that will be tremendously helpful for people.

[00:45:48] Amy Castro: And again, thanks so much for, for being here with us today. You've been a, a wealth of information. 

[00:45:54] Jessica Fisher: Of course. I'm so happy to, and just thank you so much for having me on and, and helping me get my message out to more pet parents and we can be and do better for our pets and, and that's, that's my mission in life.

[00:46:08] Amy Castro: Definitely. Definitely. Okay, everybody. Well, if you've enjoyed this episode and our other episodes of Starlight Pet Talk, please help us get the word out so that we can help more pet parents like you share this podcast with your family, your friends, and your colleagues who love animals. And even if they don't make 'em listen anyway.

[00:46:28] Amy Castro: And if you don't do anything else this week, give your pet a hug from us. 

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